You are all asking excellent "fact-finding" questions, and I definitely appreciate both hearing them and answering them as best I can :.
The best I can do is either a physically hold patch inplace until set or b Gorilla Tape in place sadly very little pressure. NONE have held up to simple "pull test" after twice the recommended curing time. When you go over the sanded area with acetone, after sanding, does the surface take on a shiny, smooth appearance or does it still look sanded. It will be critical to have the roughest surfaces possible to produce the maximum "tooth" for adhesion.
Adhesive bonding does NOT produce any type of molecular, or chemical bond. It's strictly a mechanical bond, so the maximum amount of surface area and roughness is desirable. I'd suggest cleaning with isopropyl alcohol after sanding so as not to alter the surface topography of the bonding area. What is this "hot melt with aggressive tack" that you mention? Something similar to craft "hot-glue" gun, except intended for pvc and vinyl products? Oh, and let me clarify my background: I'm a retired EE, not a mechanical engineer or, as Scotty of StarTrek would say: " I'm an electron chaser, damn it, not a chemist Didn't notice any surface change dull to shiny after final acetone cleaning, but will do another test just to confirm.
It is fairly good as general information but not specific to your application. Yes, the most common amateur use of it is in the "hot melt guns" but its most frequent use is in industries.
There are a variety of formulas available, each with its own properties, advantages and disadvantages, just like all glues. The properties you would want are adhesion to vinyl, as low a temperature at application, high tack this is the relative "stickiness" and its ability to adhere to the substrates. It sounds like a Polyolefin based would be the place to start investigating.
The hot melt gun would be a good Laboratory sample applicator for experimentation. At this point this system sounds the best for you. Many of the formulas are meant for specifically gluing vinyl among other things. Though it does not seem to like some of the Butyl blends. To be honest, I actually had briefly thought about this approach wife is into crafts and has couple of glue guns but immediately discarded it because I have never heard of their use on vinyl materials.
Which begs the proverbial 'question' of what functional difference is there between 3M and 3M ? I would be suspicious of any recommendations Uline says about adhesives and sealants. They are not an adhesives, sealant or adhesive-sealant manufacturer. They are a distributor of primarily cardboard boxes. They have nil to do with adhesives. I would even question their knowledge of adhesives for cardboard boxes whether it be dextrin, PVA, EVA, hot melt or just about anything else.
They may also steer you to some products they sell instead of the best for your application. Uline is a distributor of shipping, industrial, and packing materials to businesses throughout North America.
Uline distributes more than 25, products Adhesives and sealants combined products are a compromise. They aren't an Sick Of You - PVC (5) - 77-79 (Vinyl adhesive or sealant. They Sick Of You - PVC (5) - 77-79 (Vinyl properties of both and can be used where both properties are required but they can't do either really good. For example, when you have flexibility such as with a urethane based you may lose adhesion. A generality is that for the properties of particular water or solvent based glue there is a hot melt adhesive that could take its place.
My suggestion would be to keep on searching. Stick with the adhesives, sealant or adhesive-sealant manufacturers. Don't bother with the sales personnel. Speak to the tech service or development lab people. They are the ones who really know what does what with substrates and adhesives. If you contact one that doesn't make a suitable product, ask them for a recommendation of who might. It is generally a very completive business so they will be open about this because they want your future business for a product they manufacturer.
The products that Uline recommended are marine sealants. Some people who have used them for boats don't think they are very good. Although these are sites about boats they may be of interest to you:. Use the clear cleaner, not the purple, and then PVC pipe cement.
Worth a try. They are both a form of vinyl. Plastic welding is so easyeven I can do it. I have some 4, gallon rectangular water tanks mounted on off road trucks that come with lifetime warrantys. They are repaired with a glorified soldering iron that has air blowing through a hole in it.
The technique involves blowing hot air, or nitrogen onto the area that needs welding. Like solder, the plastic will get a sheen to it as it starts to melt. You then add filler to the heat and allow it to adhere to the existing part. In your case, I would hold the edge of the new patch to the correct location at 90 degrees and heatthe edge where they meat. Slowley heat and roll the patch into place while heating the surfaces as they come together.
Like rolling a patch onto a tube to be repaired. Good luck. Why not just heat the nut to the proper temperature then press it directly to the vinyl flashing - sort of like stud welding? Roughen the surface of the nut flange before-hand, maybe even drill some small holes in it and let the vinyl extrude through.
He could then go back and reinforce it with his patch, if needed. But, I expect this whole thermal welding approach to meet the same objections as the solvent welding. Melted plastic won't stick to metal, for numerous reasons. Normally this is done with molded-in bosses that are melted to capture the item being staked.
Has anyone tried using one of those ultra sonic foggers? They are small hockey puck shaped units you can place in ponds or pools and powered by 24 VDC they create a foggy mist.
They are also used in some humidifiers. I found by touching the active element you can get a powerful burning sensation. I haven't taken mine apart yet but I was thinking if you could get the element exposed where you could press it against a surface you could do "ultrasonic" spot welding. Are the solar screens rigid? Forget glue for all the reasons being mentioned, use clips or wing nuts like from the 20th century. I'm not sure I know what this patch looks like, but if it is mechanically attached, then maybe you could just run a bead of silicone around the edges to seal it.
Silicone expands and contracts, which is why it is used whenever there is a 90 degree angle when installing tile. You could also post this in the chemical engineering section.
I have also used a variety of 3M tapes. Contacting 3M would be best for this I think. Another source of information on plastics would be US Plastics. As big a catalog as Uline, but all they deal with is plastics.
All kinds of plastics. They should have some answers. A double sided tape is your answer, caarelessly applied it would hold the weight, carefully applied, way more. But of course it relies a bit on surface area. You may have to rethink the part you are sticking on, which may mean you can get rid of the vinyl patch and just have a metal disk with your threaded part already mated to it.
Have a look at www. You can design your own! What about HH66 Vinyl Cement? It says it is a "fast drying minuteswaterproof, solvent-synthetic, resin adhesive" that dries hard and is very strong, but is flexible, and not affected by weather and temperature extremes. I would call them with your application before buying. Whenever I call a company with a technical question, I ask to speak to someone in "technical services". Customer service and sales people are a waste of time.
Hope this works for you. LP), just got a " Care should be taken to minimize moisture exposure. Q : How are the flashings installed? Am also now looking into that 3M VHB 'tape'--stuckum on both sides of a thin foam core tape, as I recall.
A word about polyamide. So, it's a thermoplastic polyamide. Epoxies are also polyamides, but they are thermosets. Don't melt. The point is it only foams viods if 1. So, don't necessarily rule our the Thermogrip, but it should be tested first to see if it foams. If it doesn't, it's OK to use. After it solidifies, it will still absorb moisture. That's not too bad. All Nylons do this. All plastics do this to some degree, as well. I also think foam tape will work, but the life will be limited outside, in Arizona.
I predict that the foam will fail and you will have tape left on both surfaces. This tape is made from a layer of clear two-sided tape, a layer of foam, then another layer of two sided tape. It's made on rolls several feet wide, then slit to width. Though once set it will be moisture proof. Another in this group is used by PVC window manufacturers to repair stress cracks or joint failures.
I don't recall the trade name or composition but I am sure a window fabricator might be persuaded to give you a nearly empty tube that you can use quickly Tip: Ask on a Friday afternoon as these tubes go solid quickly once opened and better to give good-will than throw the expensive stuff away on monday morning Adhesive relies on the covalent bond between the PVC and the adhesive and the other mating surface.
In this family there are very few, after all, PVC makes a very good external cladding for homes simply because very little will stick to it!
Then there are the "sticky" adhesives, the high tack adhesives. These are hygroscopic - they cure in the presence of moisture, while others are non permanent such as was described in 35 comment earlier. Finally you have the choice of mechanical fasteners but these will leave holes. There are attractive forces, referred to as Van der Walls' force, and are they much weaker than covalent bonds. No covalent bonds?
You said, " Adhesive relies on the covalent bond between the PVC and the adhesive and the other mating surface. There are, still, no covalent bonds between adhesives and substrates. None, never. There are foam centered tapes, but I would reccommend a solid, they both degrade due to uv, but if it behind a metal plate, you are ok.
Why are we trying to find a way to bind these too-small patches to the window frame at all? It is easy to drill through siding to reach the studs behind it, and also easy to seal the openings. Since the window frame is not touched, then the warranty is still valid. Vinyl panties? Unfortunately, not what I'm working with darn it Timing is everything.
Or so they say. Hope it helps. Please note they offer some samples at the end of the video. Might be sufficient for your needs. The square fasteners have a 1. The attachment method was meant to utilize a covalent bond, however, the window manufacturer effectively forbids this if one wishes to maintain the warranty. Adhesives use Van Der Waal forces, which are much weaker than covalent bonds. Therefore a much larger surface area is required to compensate. I would recommend that the fasteners use a vinyl interface layer to reduce expansion differences across the adhesive.
Might as well make it at Sick Of You - PVC (5) - 77-79 (Vinyl as thick as the original T-nut depth, probably more. I also recommend keeping the machine thread near the center of each new larger part - even if that means the part has to turn the corner of the window frame. You may need to limit the size of the new parts so that they do not flex significantly under loador use more screws on each part.
Bending would tend to concentrate stress causing early delamination. At the upper limit, you may create an adhesive interface as large as the window frame, with many more screws to distribute the forces.
The surfaces should NOT be abraded with a course or medium grit. A very fine grit will allow pressure sensitive adhesive to conform more completely. An orbital sander will produce a cross pattern with more active area than does parallel sanding. I also agree that isopropyl is better than stronger solvents at keeping the vinyl surface strong. Solvents interfere with adhesives. Allow plenty of time for the cleaning solvent to escape from absorption in the vinyl. Dish detergent, distilled water, and dry steam may be effective cleaning agents to remove sanding dust, oil, and contaminants.
Do not use rags that have had contact with fabric softeners like inside clothes dryers. Your skin is another source of oil contamination. I have these vinyl curtains that the cats keep poking and ripping. This 3m duct tape works well by 3m and it comes in different colors.
I bought the white one. Be careful once you put it on you might not be able to take it off without ripping the vinyl! Use H Vinyl Cement. It is superior quality adhesive which dries very quickly, LP). It is widely used to bond vinyl coated and vinyl laminated fabrics to themselves and to other various materials. New Post.
Comments Format:. Subscribe to Discussion :. CR4 allows you to "subscribe" to a discussion so that you can be notified of new comments to the discussion via email. Rating Vote:. Score 1 Score 2 Score 3 Score 4 Score 5. Add Vote. Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Comments rated to be Good Answers: These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers". Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them! Which idiot did you talk to at 3M that does not know their own product line???? They make a loads of adhesives that bond vinyl.
PVC is used to make pipes, polyvinyl flooring and siding, hoses, cable coatings, medical devices, and plumbing and automotive parts. It is used to make material for upholstery, housewares, shower curtains, raincoats, toys, school supplies, food packaging, and shoes. If you think your health has been affected by exposure to PVC, contact your health care professional. Always wash your hands thoroughly after handling chemicals.
For poisoning emergencies or questions about possible poisons, please contact your local poison control center at Enhance your education on toxic chemicals in our environment using lesson plans, games and activities, videos, informational websites, and more.
COVID is an emerging, rapidly evolving situation. Polyvinyl Chloride PVC. Reduce your risk External links Science Classroom Grades Polyvinyl Chloride PVC commonly enter s the body through:. Inhalation breathing Breathing emissions from manufacturing or incinerating PVC, or landfills.
Skin contact Touching products made with PVC. PVC contains chemicals that may have adverse health effects: Exposure to PVC often includes exposure to phthalates and chlorine. Manufacturing, burning, or landfilling PVC releases dioxins. Phthalates, dioxins, and BPA are suspected to be endocrine disruptors. Children Many plastic and vinyl products for children contain PVC. Reduce your risk If you think your health has been affected by exposure to PVC, contact your health care professional.
Does your home have vinyl siding?
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